When You Completely Attain Your True Self, Then Everything Is Complete

Dharma talk given in Katowice, Poland, April 1978

Primary Point Editor’s Note: Zen Master Seung Sahn, made his first trip to Europe in spring of 1978. He was then fifty years old, a Korean monk and the Seventy-Eighth Ancestor in his line of succession. He had been teaching in America since 1972, the first Korean Zen Master to teach in the West. And now he wanted to find out about Europe. And so, in the company of six of his students, Dae Soen Sa Nim made the trip. They started in Italy, going first to Rome and then to Venice. Then they continued on to Zurich in Switzerland. Eventually they ended up in Poland, where they went to Warsaw, then Krakow, and finally Katowice. Along the way they visited many Zen centers and groups, and Zen Master Seung Sahn gave talks in many different places.

The following dharma talks detailing Zen Master Seung Sahn’s European experiences are taken from the daily journal kept by Mu Sang Sunim, who at the time was still a layperson named David B. Gerber. Dae Soen Sa Nim specifically requested that his student keep the journal of the trip, and so most of the talks made during that trip were recorded and later transcribed into a manuscript, and they are reprinted here with Mu Sang Sunim’s permission.

The first is a talk Dae Soen Sa Nim gave upon his arrival in Katowice, and the other is a question and answer session.

I feel today as I did when I once went to Kapleau Roshi’s Zen center. [In the audience there were about thirty people in brown robes, in the style worn by Kapleau Roshi’s students. —Ed.] Two years ago, Kapleau Roshi invited me to the opening of their Buddha House. Today I am visiting your Zen center. The Zen center is small, but the correct Kapleau Roshi mind is always here with you. So I am happy to see your everyday practicing, and I hope your Zen center will grow and grow, you will get enlightenment, and save all people from suffering.

People believe in many kinds of Buddhism. Our Zen is a two-time revolution from Buddha’s original teaching. Buddha originally taught Hinayana Buddhism. Then there was a revolution: Mahayana Buddhism. Next there was a revolution within Mahayana Buddhism: Zen Buddhism. Hinayana Buddhism is only believing in one buddha, Shakyamuni Buddha. Mahayana Buddhism taught that one buddha was not enough. There are many people with different karma, different ideas. So to save them, in Mahayana Buddhism there are 84,000 buddhas, 84,000 bodhisattvas, 84,000 demons. This is too many buddhas, too many bodhisattvas, too many demons. So Zen Buddhism says that too many are not necessary. When you meet the Buddha, kill the Buddha! When you meet a bodhisattva, you must kill the bodhisattva! When you meet a demon, you must kill the demon! That is Zen. Then you will return to your true self. Zen is not dependent on anything. Not dependent on Buddha, not dependent on bodhisattvas, not dependent on God, not dependent on demons. Dependent on my true self. That is Buddha’s original teaching.

Depending on my true self means becoming independent. I heard that formerly there was much suffering in Poland. In Korea also there was much suffering. I read the story of Madame Curie. Russia controlled this country. Curie went underground, teaching the Polish language. The Japanese also controlled Korea. Korean people taught Korean underground. This means being independent from one’s country. Very similar karma. But this is outside independence. Zen is inside and outside complete independence. So our Zen means when you completely attain your true self, then everything is complete. If your mind is not complete, everything else is not complete. So if you are complete, your friends, your family, your country, the whole world is complete. Buddha said, if one mind is pure, the whole world is pure. That means complete teaching.

So what is complete? Our mind has many kinds of ideas. Also we keep many kinds of conditions, many kinds of situations. If your opinion, your condition, your situation completely disappear, then your mind is clear like space. Then your mind is like a clear mirror. Then you can see the sky—only blue. You can see this wall—only white. Someone is hungry, give them food. Someone is sad, you are sad together. There is no inside, no outside, no subject, no object; inside and outside completely become one. The name for this is great love, great bodhisattva, great compassion.

In this world all beings are suffering greatly. Buddha said that numberless beings are suffering. So our Buddhist students, keeping the great vow, only going straight, helping other people. Just your style. Now you are small, but your mind light is shining everywhere. This mind light has no shadow. It is brighter than the sun, stronger than anything. So I hope you only go straight, keeping bodhisattva mind, great love, and great compassion, soon get enlightenment, finish the great work of life and death, and save all people from suffering.

Q&A: How Did You Learn Dharma?

A student asked Zen Master Seung Sahn, “How did you become interested in Zen?”

Dae Soen Sa Nim replied, “I didn’t understand my true self. First I wanted to understand my true self. I studied at the university. This was before I became a monk. Understanding is like a tape recorder. Understanding could not help me. I took all my understanding and threw it away. Then my true self appeared. So Zen is very interesting.”

The student continued, “How did you find Zen Master Ko Bong?”

Dae Soen Sa Nim said, “First I entered a monastery. At that time, after the Second World War, Korean society was very confusing. So I went to the mountain. At that time I also liked Western philosophy, but one day I decided that Eastern philosophy was better than Western philosophy. At that time I was not Buddhist; I was Christian. So I studied Taoism and Confucianism. But I didn’t understand the truth. I liked what Socrates said, ‘You must understand your true self.’ Confucianism and Taoism could not make me understand my true self. One day a monk came to my place and said I must read a book. It was the Diamond Sutra. So I read in the Diamond Sutra, ‘All formations are transient. If you view all appearance as nonappearance, then you can find your true self.’ This helped me. Then I studied many sutras, reading and reading. Later, a monk came and asked me what I was doing. I said I wanted to understand Buddhism. The monk replied, ‘If you want to understand Buddhism, this is already a mistake. If you throw away all your understanding, then you will attain correct Buddhism.’ I thought that was correct, so I threw away all the sutras. I wanted to go to a Zen center. Just at that time Zen Master Ko Bong visited our Zen center, Magaksa Temple. So I met Ko Bong and studied Zen from him. After one year I became his student and he gave me transmission.”

Another student asked, “How do you like Poland—Warsaw, Krakow, Katowice?”

Dae Soen Sa Nim replied, “Before I came to Poland I heard that your country is like our North Korea. I was born in North Korea, and later I moved to South Korea. I want to return to my country, but I cannot. So I thought, maybe Poland will not give me a visa. I worried about this. But your country gave me a visa, so I say, ‘Thank you very much.’ I understood my country, very strong. I came here to your country, it is very warm, also there is freedom. It’s like Europe. All young people’s minds here are like the minds of young people in America and Europe, not different. So I am very happy. Already young people become one. Then this mind in the future will mean world peace.

“Politics is only politics. But if young people’s minds come together, politics will only follow young people’s idea. So if young people’s mind becomes one, this is the best thing. Before, I said this mind is great love, great compassion, the great bodhisattva way. Only help other people: my family, my friends, my village, my country, the whole world. This mind. So I feel very good.”

A student asked, “How did you come to learn the dharma, become a monk, and become a great teacher?”

Zen Master Seung Sahn answered, “I didn’t know the dharma, so I became a monk. I studied dharma—but no dharma. I wanted to find the dharma, but I could not find dharma. So I don’t want dharma, only this. What do you understand?”

The student said, “I don’t understand anything.”

Dae Soen Sa Nim replied, “So I hit you. Then maybe if you find the meaning of my hit you will understand dharma. But this is only what we call dharma. If you want original dharma, you ask me: what is dharma?”

The student asked, “What is dharma?”

Dae Soen Sa Nim said, “When I’m hungry I eat; when I’m tired I sleep. Do you understand?”

“I think so, but I’m not sure this is understanding.”

“Then ask me again,” said Dae Soen Sa Nim.

“What is dharma?”

“Today I left Krakow at 8:40 and arrived here after half an hour. Is that enough? Dharma is not dharma. The sun, the moon, the stars do not say, ‘I am the sun, I am the moon, I am the stars.’ Buddha did not say, ‘I am Buddha.’ God does not say, ‘I am God.’ The true God and the true Buddha have no name. Also the true sun, the true moon, the true stars have no name. All names are made by thinking. Dharma, karma, Buddha nature are also all names. So the only true dharma is no dharma. True truth is no truth. True karma is also no karma. If you make dharma, you have dharma. If you make karma, you have karma. If you cut off all thinking, everything and you become one. But if you have something, you only have something, you lose everything. If you throw away everything of your own, then you will get everything. This means, throw away dharma, Buddha, God, throw away your understanding. Then you will get true dharma, true Buddha, true nature, true substance—you will get everything. Then everything you can see, you can hear, you can smell—everything is dharma, everything is Buddha, everything is truth. If your mind is correct dharma, then everything is correct dharma. If your mind is truth, everything is truth. If your way is correct, then everything is the correct way. That is Buddha’s teaching. Everything is made by thinking. So how, just now, moment to moment, do you keep your correct situation? That point. So if you make your idea completely disappear, then everything you see, you hear, you do, all is dharma.